Sunday, October 29, 2017

Maté, Aaron. “Excerpts on Interest in an Interview with Max Blumenthal and Ben Norton” (25 Oct 2017) Moderate Rebels. Example of all interlocutors in casual and highly informal conversation agreeing with each other.


  Blumenthal: … [A]rticle is called ‘Russiagate Is More Fiction Than Fact’. That is so offensive to me as someone who has bought into this whole and does not want to see.




  … [t]he entire Liberal Media from Mother Jones to your former employers at Democracy Now just throw all their blows at Trump:  ‘Felix Sater’, ‘What about Jared Kushner?’, ‘What about twenty-one States?’ ‘What about the Gary Simoff Doctrine?’ ‘And what about this and what about?’





  Maté: [S]light correction. I came out with a piece attacking Rachel Maddow in April, criticising her for covering Russia more than every other single issue combined. To do that, I had to watch her show for six weeks and calculate the amount of Time.
Norton: How did you do that?
  Maté: It was tough, it was tough.
                                Norton: The Horror, the Horror.
  Maté: I was actually a fan of hers before, but this Russia stuff destroyed that for good.





  Maté: [I] remember there was a Daily Beast article about Russian Social Media campaign with [a calculation of] how many people may have been swept in by Russian spending $100,000 Facebook ads. It was like a team of reporter. Because Daily Beast assigns multiple reporters for these Russian stories, including Spencer Ackerman. It said, “Up to 70 million people” may have been swept in by Russian campaign.”





  Maté: [T]here was Timothy Snyder, who incidentally is a total hock on Russia. I think he’s a professor at Yale.
  Norton: Timothy Snyder’s career goal has been to artifically conflate the Soviet Union with Nazi Germany. In fact, he wrote an entire book, essentially arguing that Stalin and Hitler were the same Thing. Of course, obscuring the historical Fact that Soviet Union defeated Nazism and killed 90% of Nazis killed in World War Two. This actually is a very dangerous Method that has been weaponised for Liberals. Timothy Snyder is certainly a Liberal. I’m not accusing him of being on the Far Right, but his narratives.
  Blumenthal: He’s a Liberal Neo-con. He did a Conference in Kiev with Leon Wieseltier, who was one of the PNAC [Project for a New American Century, a defunct Neo-conservative Think Tank – Ed.] signatories, pumping up the [Maidan Nezalezhnosti]. He said that Europe’s Fate hinges on Ukraine and he’s totally whitewashed the Ukraine Nationalism. This is like the sinister high-brow element of Russiagate that is discredited by Reality of Ukraine and so many other events. I think what we’re dealing with here and what Aaron’s talking about. If you go back to Timothy Snyder. You’re dealing with something much more low-brow and nefarious.
  Norton: I think it’s important, though, to understand that the reason I’m stressing that Snyder is not on the Far Right is the fact that his narratives are still being weaponised by Far Right. We have a lot of People who is self-professed Liberals, who is spouting these narratives which are then going out of control and being used by these very dangerous Forces. So in the case of Snyder, there is this Myth that has been perpetuated by Far-right Governments in Eastern Europe, many of which are NATO Allies and Membres, of “Double Genocide”. And there is this group defending History which does a lot of Good work -
Blumenthal: Holodomor which Applebaum has pushed as well, who is not on the Right.
  Norton: What they’re doing is grafting Nazi Historiography and rebranding into this new Neo-liberal Historiography that basically claims that everything Soviet Union did everything that the Nazi Germany did, that it’s reponsible for its own Holocaust, called Holodomor in Ukraine. I mean, this is very dangerous Propaganda. And what it is given birth to is essentially Nazi Revisionism throughout Eastern Europe, especially in places like Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Baltic States have really bad problem with this. And you have Governments in Eastern Europe trying to create Legislation that makes it legally mandated to recognise the Double Genocide myth, which in some ways [absolves] Nazi History. So we need to understand that a lot of these narratives, they might be created for political gain but they’re ultimately fueling the Far Right.
  Blumenthal: We can do a whole episode on that. But that’s definitely an aspect here. It was something Clinton campaign participated in at the event at Ukranian Embassy. There’s Ken Vokel’s article about how Clinton campaign actually colluded with the Ukraine. Melanie Verveer, who was a State Department official who worked under Hillary, did an event with Hanna [unclear], who is a Ukrainian legislator, one of the stars at Majdanek, she just sponsored a Legialtion you just mentioned that not only requires acceptance of the Double Genocide narrative but also illegalises Communist symbol and punishes anyone who displays them with five-year Prison. They were kind of unhinged together at the Ukranian Embassy. This has become a part of ethos of the Centrist wing of the Democratic Party, the Clintonite wing of the Party. But Aaron, you were making a point about Timothy snyder we went off left field with.





  Maté: [O]n Timothy Snyder, I was going to say, he came out with a book called [On Tyranny]. It was all about how Trump could herald this authoritarian State. So he goes around and he gets taken seriously. He was on Democracy Now, and one of his tips for resisting Authoritarianism was “Make eye contact.” [Laughter of Blumenthal and Norton.]




Maté: That’s Kurt Eichenwald reference right there.
  Blumenthal: How many times has he been on Democracy Now, by the way, Durk Bichenwald? How many times?
  Maté: That was actually my favourite. I couldn’t believe this. He went on before the election, he went on Democracy Now, they called it “How Trump’s Ties to Russia Could Threaten U.S. National Security”.
Blumenthal: This is Democracy Now worried about U.S. National Security.
Maté: This is Democracy Now.
  First of all, using the word National Security, it’s a serious term, you know. And of course, having Eichenwald, [as if] he [were] an expert to that.





  Maté: But it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter. Even someone like Senator Mark Turner.
                                Blumenthal: Mark Warner.
  Maté: Mark Warner at the Intelligence Committee. When he gave a Press Conference last week on the update on Russia Investigation, he cited the hacking in France.
  Blumenthal: Yeah, everyone. Peter Beinart cited it to attack me for what I said on Tucker Carlson. It got cited again in the New York Times. It’s cited again and again, because no one knows it’s been debunked. It’s just a narrative. And when the whole narrative is no longer of political utility, they just move on to another narrative. And everyone act like. And meanwhile, Russian Embassy has been raided in San Francisco, we have imposed unprecedented sanctions on Russia. And it’s like we’re supposed to treat Diplomacy with another Nuclear Power as something just not to be taken seriously. I think that’s incredibly dangerous.





  Maté: Russia just said it’s going to possibly close down American outlets in Russia in response to RT and Sputnik being investigated as Foreign Agents, and a lot of Pressure being put on them. I wanted to give two examples of what we’re talking about in terms of how there’s never any follow-up. So a few months ago, Maddow let her show with this 15-minutes segment about how a Russian spammer had been arrested in an international Investigation that U.S. was involved in. And she gave this whole thing going through about how Russian spammer could have been involved in the hacking and what this might mean for Russiagate Probe. The next day, New York Times reported that this spammer had nothing to do with Russiagate probe, so she just never mentioned it again. She just never mentioned it. There’s no update, just nothing.





  Blumenthal: [M]ichael Tracy made the point that if you read deep into the articles on what I guess you could call Russiagate, by the tenth paragraph the reporters can see there’s no Evidence to support virtually every other core claim they’ve made. Or that the alledged Russian Influence operation reached no one, which is the case when Dylan Byers reported on Pokemon Go scheme used to spread racial division by directing People to Black Lives Matter, using Pokemon. He kind of conceded towards the end of his article that absolutely zero Humanbeings, no sentient beings, not even Praying Mantises arrived to Black Lives Matter, courtesy of Russian Pokemon Go plot. So no impact on America’s wonderful Democracy.
  Norton: On this point also, this is not new, either. This is something that I’ve been monitoring closely for well over a year now. I wrote an article for Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, the Media-watchdog, in August of 2016, and it was about how a July [Eric Lichtblau] New York Times story about how Russia hacked the Election. In the second to last paragraph in this entire article, they acknowledged that there is no Evidence. They just buried in the second to last paragraph where they know no one is going to see it.
Blumenthal: Every single article. And what the fuck does it mean to hack the Election? Can you explain that for me?
  Norton: This is intentional phrase that People use because it’s ambiguous. So Tom Cotton has been doing this in particular. So what you can do is, you can say, “Russia hacked the Election.” or “Russia hacked us.” You don’t have to actually provide any specific accusations, because then you would have to provide an Evidence to substantiate those. Instead, you just leave the language very vague.
  Maté: Even Democracy Now uses it. It’s so weird.





  Blumenthal: Cass Sunstein, in his piece calling calling Trump Marxist and likened him to Sanders, because Bernie Sanders attacks what Sunstein calls “supposedly evil big banks.” Supposedly Evil. So he’s essentially admitting that. And of course, he says that Russia is deploying Marxist tactics to try to divide us. More resonant narrative than what Bernie Sanders is putting forward that speak to People with economic concerns.
  Maté: I’ll read you that passage, Max. “In the United States, Senator Bernie Sanders has long been drawn to the approach, arguing that the interests of good, decent ordinary people are sharply opposed to those of powerful and supposedly evil actors (such as ‘the banks’).” Imagine that: The Banks’ interest are contrary to the ordinary People’s interests?
  Blumenthal: Cass Sunstein, by the way, who’s at Harvard. His wife, Samantha Power, who tried to sow division in Syria by arming and funding Salafi Jihadi proxies. I think a little bit worse than Facebook Puppies memes. [She] is also implanted at Havard. So we should really thank Harvard for really propping up the Meritocracy and giving us these great Thought leaders.
                                Norton: Whatever that means.
  Blumenthal: Cass Sunstein is also someone who proposed illegalising conspiracy theories. But not Elite conspiracy theories, like Russiagate, that make the Government the arbiter of what’s permissible. And I think where this is going. This is where this Russian meddling narrative is going. Clint Watts, whom you mentioned before, who is one of the kind of hucksters of the Russia Fear-mongering Industrial Complex, low-level unknown before all of this in at a Neo-con Think Tank based in Philadelphia.
                                Maté: Max, he’s a Senior Fellow. He’s a Senior Fellow. Show some Respect.
                                Norton: Senior Fellow~~.
                                Maté: Show some Respect for the Senior Fellow.
Blumenthal: Yeah, Senior Fellow.
  There is more Seniore Fellow inside the Beltway than in the AARP these days. [Laughter of Norton and Maté] But in any case, Watts somehow ends up testifying at the Congress, because he had helped make the kind of whole Theory of Russian-bots and Russian meddling. And he proposes at the end of his testimony, “Government labelling on all Media that gives People of the nutritional value of the Media and explains to them what the political orientation of that Media is.” So the Government will be able to take, for example, an article on AlterNet and give it a number for Truthiness and explain to them what AlterNet is. So the Government will decide whether it’s Progressive or whether it’s Russian Propaganda or not. We all mock ProperNot. This is a guy testifying before the Congress for label, and then at the Atlantic Council, which is as much of a Foreign Agent as anything else. It’s funded by NATO, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain. It’s a big Think Tank in Washington.
                                Norton: And the U.S. State Department.
Blumenthal: And State Department is one of the few domestic funders.
  There was a panel on RT qualified as Foreign Agent under FARA, Foreign Agent Registration Act. Jamie Kirchick and other Thought leaders get up and say there should be a warning labels on Media, particularly the Media that advances Russian narrative. Two days after that talk, where a paper was presented by “experts”. Jamie Kirchick had just been brought into Brookings Institute. I don’t know what he’s contributing to the intellectual Life in America, but he’s brought in there. And the Person who produced that Paper arguing for RT and Sputnik to be defined as Foreign Agent. Two days after that, he was also made a Fellow, a Senior Fellow at Brookings. And the Justice Department issued, sent a letter to RT and Sputnik, declaring that they should register as foreign agents. This isn’t something to be taken lightly. They’re calling not only for – I think Suppression of Free Press in the U.S., starting with RT and Sputnik, is a pilot project. But they’re actually calling for warning labels, which reminds of of 1990s William Bennett-** Tucker Campaign against the Rock Music, really against Hip Hop. And that’s where this is going. As the Collusion narrative falls away and Russian “meddling”, “interference”, sowing division narrative becomes front and center, we’re seeing a crackdown on Dissident Media, whether it’s to the Far Right on Breitbart or to the Center-left on AlterNet or with RT and Sputnik, who are getting the harshest treatment. And I think we’re seeing a birth of New McCarthyism that’s pushed and accepted by the coastal Liberals who really believe they are the True Champions of Free Speech and donate Money to ACLU. ACLU hasn’t said jackshit about this, by the way. So if any of you want to weigh in on that.





  Maté: [M]ax, I wanted to relay a couple of anecdote you mentioned about the panel on RT at the Atlantic Council because you sent it to me and I watched it. Jamie Kirchick, whom you mentioned, he even says, he even admits that “RT has 30,000 viewers on Regular TV in the U.S.” And he also says that he think that, “Voice of America in Russia is more influential on Russians than RT is on Americans here,” because it only has 30,000 viewers. He also called for, another proposal he makes is that, “Any young journalist should be told that if you work at RT or Sputnik, you’ll never get a Job in Media anywhere in the U.S.” And the funniest part was that there was a former Sputnik journalist named Andrew Feinberg, who gets up then after that and asks Jamie for a pardon. “I’ve worked at  Sputnik, but can I be maybe exempt from this new edict?”
  Blumenthal: And this is the source for Michael Isikoff and everyone on supposed FBI Investigation in the Sputnik. He’s the Liz Wall [?] of Sputnik. They’re all propping up who was clearly fired for Incompetency.
  Norton: Jamie Kirchick is also a serial liar. He published on an article on Daily Beast last year, libeling a dozen journalists and intellectuals as supposed Trump supporter. I actually wrote an entire piece for Salon. I interviewed every single person he had falsely accused as Trump supporter, including Professor at Princeton University, Professor Cohen who is a leading expert on Russia. I also interviewed Rania Khalek, a friend of ours, and many others, and Katrina vanden Heuvel.
  Blumenthal: Who is under enormous Attack within the Nation from the Centrist elements: Josh Holland, Katha Pollitt openly inveighing against her.
                                Maté: Bob Dreyfuss, Joan Walsh.
Blumenthal: Bob Dreyfuss, Joan Walsh, yeah.
  She let these People in the building and they want to burn the whole Thing down in the name of Clintonism. Basically no critical narrative allowed. But Kirchick, yes, he’s a known liar. When you see his lips moving, you know he’s lying.
                                Norton: Kirchick falsely claimed that they were Trump supporters.
                                Maté: This is a point I want to inforce.
  Blumenthal: Unpack what he’s saying. He’s saying that RT should be attacked because of its Content while acknowledging that it doesn’t have that much impact. He didn’t make any Content-anlysis and demonstrate that it’s taking instruction on undermining American Democracy or lobbying for anything. He basically attacked it for its political positions. This is classic McCarthyism.
  Maté: That’s even contained in that infamous January Intelligence Committee Report where –
                                Blumenthal: The ODNI Report.
  Maté: - where they have a long Appendix, talking about RT Coverage.
  Norton: It was talking about Abby Martin Show, and her show ended years before.
  Blumenthal: The show had been defunct for two years and ODNI Report dedicated 8 of 23 pages to it, accusing it of “sowing radical discontent.” That’s when I knew it was going to be a wonderful year for anyone who goes on RT and comes from the Left. It will only intensify. My understanding is that Facebook and Twitter are operating off the ODNI Report, espeically Twitter, reporting to Congress that RT had been spending $150,000 on Marketing. Basically, RT had marketed its own news reporting and commentary on Twitter, and Twitter was compelled to declare this kind of great Propaganda to the U.S. Congress based on ODNI Report and ODNI Report alone. We were told that there is a classified version that actually shows the collusion. It turns out it was a high-school level Media-content analysis of RT. And it shows that CIA or whoever in the Intelligence Agency was closely tracking Abby Martin and her show, and they just dumped it when they needed to.





  Maté: Like Mark Warner. Mark Warner then flew out personally to Facebook Headquarter in California and pressed them. And lo and behold, months after Facebook Investion, then Facebook came out and said, “We’ve identified Russian-linked accounts.” Now they’re being dragged before the Congress, and Max, as you pointed out, they have every reason to play ball with powerful People in D.C.





  Maté: [S]tephen Cohen, who is probably the top scholar in Russia in the Country, he’s now being accused of being a Putin sympathiser. But anyone who can see clearly knows what an expert he is and how rich his History is with Russia. He even says that he doesn’t think there’s Evidence that Putin ordered these killings of journalists. He’s pointed to there being other Motives. I don’t know if that line about Putin being behind journalists’ Murders. It might be true, but there’s certainly.
  Blumenthal: That’s another important point. Russia has been – it is less so, but has been since the 1990s – in many ways Mafia-state. It was destabilised deliberately by the US and NATO. We rammed through all these Free Market Reforms.
  Norton: They were at the time referred to as Shock Therapy. That was the term used by the U.S. Government to refer to the intense Neo-liberal Reforms to reduce the Life Expectancy by six years of average Russians, drastically [increase] the Poverty Rates, Mortality Rates, you go down the list. These were really brutal.
  Blumenthal: Also reduce the Life Expectancy of journalists who are covering who was jousting for Power in the Free Market Libertarian Russia. It’s the same Thing we see in Mexico, which I covered. Journalist after journalist who covers the real Power-brokers who are in charge of the Northern Mexico, which are the Tijuana and Juarez Cartels, wind up dead. So are we going to blame Vicente Fox and Enrique Peña Nieto for their Killings? It’s basically the same thing that we’re doing by putting all the blame on Putin. By the way, more journalists were killed under Yeltsin’s Reign than under Putin, but that’s just another inconvenient Fact.  





  Norton: Reuters wrote story after story after story, some of which had almost identical headline and just the same article. I remember the opposition just keep accusing Venezuela of rigging the Elections, but it says at in the article, just like these Russiagate stories, “Opposition provided no evidence for its claims.” Every single time. “Opposition provided no evidence.” These are just unsubstantiated accusations that are echoed, because it is demonising a Country that is not a part of the U.S. Structure, that is not allied with U.S. and NATO. So I think there’s certainly cartoonish portrayal of Putin, but I wouldn’t say they’re unique. It is similar to the portrayals of Rhouhani and Ayatollah in Iran, similar to the portrayals of Assad in Syria. You go down the list.





  Blumenthal: George Soros, I’m not saying he’s a global puppet-master, but he did publish a piece, declaring that Russia is a greater Threat than ISIS. I think we’ve heard that from. A lot of Elites and Power-brokers in the US, People coming from National Security State. I’m working on a piece about the transition that a lot of counter-terror self-styled expert, Clint Watts being one of them, have made from the War on Terror to Russiagate, Russia meddling, a great national freak-out, and how their whole Counter-terror Industry is shifting to Russia now. Paul Mason is even, a journalist for the Guardian in UK, is considered kind of leftist even made the very same point: Russia is a greater Threat than ISIS, and therefore UK needs to shore up the BA System and support its Defence contractors. Russia has in many ways supplanted ISIS as the National Threat. We need that in order to keep the Defence Industry booming.
  If you live in Washington, D.C., you will see all these lofts going up, all these new unsightly Lofts-apartment going up, and they’re right next to BA Office System. General Dynamics, Booze Allan Hamilton. They’re right next to these contractors. They’re right next to these contractors. And they’re basically Housing for 20-something, unmarried, mid-level and low-level Drone-workers, and that’s what’s fueling Gentrification in D.C. It has a lot to do with Defence budget, and if you unpack the NDAA, you’ll find there for the first time $500 million dollars for supposedly defensive Weapons for Ukranian Military. This has to do with Russian hysteria. Even Money for flying Ukranian soldiers back to the U.S. to treat them because we’re using Ukranians as cannon-fodders in our Proxy war against Russia. Tons of money for Balkans and to support NATO Expansion, and you have State Department’s Global Engagement Centre, which is essentially designed to propagate at Russians. It’s an influence Operation aimed at Russia with a massive Budget authorised by Obama. So a lot of this Money is coming through this Russiagate, a lot of Jobs. As you said, Aaron, it’s a Growth Industry.
  Maté: Accordingly it gets ignored. So for example, the Senate approved sending hundreds of millions of dollars to Ukraine, a move, as Max, I think, pointed this out before, Obama resisted because he didn’t want to do more to fuel the Proxy war.
                                Blumenthal: And Trump resisted it at the time.
  Maté: At first, but now he’s not, but now he’s the [President]. Chair of Joint Chief of Staff supports it. Everybody supports it. So that happens, and of course nobody mentions it, because it undermines the narrative that Putin is pulling Trump’s strings.
  Norton: Senate just voted on $700 billion Pentagon Budget. This got very little Media coverage at the time. The Arms deals packages you’re talking about is a part of this larger Legislation. This is unprecedented historically. $700 dollars. Of course it comes at the time where -
Blumenthal: It’s actually commensurate to Post-9/11 Defence Budgets, but I don’t see why we’re still at that level, that’s the issue, I think.
Norton: Absolutely.
  Of course, when you look at where these funds are being allotted, a very significant percentage of $700 billions is going to Contractors. So you have Tax-dollars being funneled into the pockets of the Private corporations making Weapons of Death, fuelling these Conflicts for Profit.
  Blumenthal: Bill Hartung, who is one of the best analyst, William Hartung at the Defence Budget studied it closely and found that $312 billion of last year’s Budget went directly into the hands of Private Corporations or Contractors. So that was over 50% of the Budget. So over 50% of the Budget is not going to support our Troops, it’s going to support those guys who go to the Nationals games with their corporate patch on from the BA Systems or whatever. They’re all a way of supporting the Troops. They wave their hats when they bring ten wounded Soldiers back from Afghanistan to sit in the bleacher seats, and these guys are right behind them.
                        Norton: And they chugg a beer.
Blumenthal: Chugging a Kraft beer, with a flying dog at the IPA, with the 98 international bitter unit of rating. That’s what the Nationals game is, man.
  You can actually see if you’re sitting by the first-base line, you can actually see the BA Systems Building, towering over. That’s really what our Nation’s Capitol is. You have to keep some Fear-mongering narrative alive. Also, as Madeleine Albright said, she said to Colin Powell, With a Military this big, you have to use it at some point, don’t you? Trump hasn’t started a War yet. We’re talking about him as if he’s some War-criminal and celebrating George Bush today dancing with Ellen Degeneres. This smirking Chimpanzee War-criminal who basically. Connie West was right about him and denouncing him as white supremacist. Horrible as he is, Trump hasn’t started a War yet.
  Norton: He hasn’t intensified the Wars in Yemen and Afghanistan and elsewhere. But you’re right. Of course, it hasn’t been a year yet. Unfortunately, there is a War impending. The Question is: Where?





  Maté: I’ve never been more disheartened by Progressive media than I have under Trump, seeing how shutting out of criticism like this of being skeptical of Russiagate being so credulous when it comes to all the Russiagate developments being transparently stupid and so transparently done in the interest in those who were spitting it from the beginning. But also you guys have been very involved with Syria. Having very limited coverage of the issue that shuts out voices like yours who are skeptical about foreign meddling in Syria and the Proxy war there. In terms of the Future of Progressive media, the way some Outlets behave, I’m scared by it. But you know there has to be a solution and I’m sure we’ll find it. I just think it’s bleak right now.
  Norton: The Russiagate scare was very effective in the early days of Trump Administration, and I think at this point it’s lost a lot of the momentum that had steam previously. Fortunately, we are in some ways engaging in more substantive critiques of Trump. Of course we’re talking about refusal to condemn, we’re talking more about his direct Corruption, we’re talking more about horrific Disasters at Puerto Rico and elsewhere that Trump just completely jump the ball on. Those are the substantitive critiques we should have been hearing from the beginning. And like you said, with this investigation of Mueller coming up short and proving to be so anti-climatic, I do think that things make a little better, but of course it’s going to be something that Progressive media will have to live with for some time, and they have tarnished their own Reputations. It’s similar to, I think, WMD scare that some Progressive media outlets also happily propagated at the time. This is not, I think, anything new here.
  Blumenthal: I think that there needs to be a reckoning for Progressive media here. Hopefully this will end. I think this has given birth to a New McCarthyism. Liberals would actually like to run a buzzsaw through whatever’s left of the Left on Anti-War Movement. It’s like 500 workers from the PSL, a few old People from the Mainline Christian Churches, and like Rand Paul’s 375 year old Self. I don’t really see much Left there. It’s very dismaying. It was the New York Times really in the Mainstream Media that was pushing the Iraqi WMDs, there was Resistance from the Progressive media. Salon.com, where I was freelancing at the time, did a great Job around the Iraq War. So I think that this really represents kind of [unclear] nature, not just the Progressive media, but the whole Liberal apparatus developed around Howard Dean in mid-2000s.
Norton: And the Clintons before that, with the rise of the new Democrat and the embrace of Neo-liberalism in the 1990s.
  Blumenthal: This is about getting over that and representing the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party, as Howard Dean said. It was really Obama who set the stage for this destruction, that kind of deadening of Progressive Media. I remember in 2008, when the Nation endorsed Obama on the basis of Hope and Change and nothing else. Chris Hayes wrote the initial endorsement, I saw something terrible coming. And here we are, Democracy Now is not the [Exception] to the Rulers. I had a lot of Hope for the Intercept. It’s clear that Mark Ames, I think some of the Things he said about Glenn Greenwald run fair. Glenn is a rare voice of Sanity, but [Ames] was right that Omidyar does have an agenda, that Billionaires have an agenda, and that agenda does include Regime Change and U.S. Empire. So I think there really are problems there on these key issues and they deserve to be publicly scrutinised. [omitted] So I guess my overall point is that it’s tough Environment for journalists and media-people. Naomi Klein was out there, calling Billionaires the Enemy of the Humanity, then she takes a Job at the Intercept. I’m not calling her a hypocrite at all. It’s just that that’s the state of Things in the Media. You’re working for a Billionaire or some State or you have to go out and hustle for Money from Millionaires or you have to have a Patreon. Either way, you’re kind of hustling. And I don’t know how you have a Patreon and go have a Family, buy a Home, and pay for Health-insurance for everyone. I don’t know Chapo Trap House’s magical formula for making a million dollars a year. But it seems impossible. I don’t know how to do Irony that’s worth that much Money. [Laughter of Maté]
  Norton: Yeah, it is a pretty dismal state. And unfortunately, I don’t think there’s any easy solution. I don’t say what [some] People have done in History is to create their own Media. But of course, we’re always going to be the ones who don’t have Money, we’re always going to be the ones who face obstacle […]

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