1.
Pilger: What’s the significance of the FBI’s Intervention in this last week of the U.S. Election Campaign in the case
against Hillary Clinton?
2.
Assange: If you look at the History of the FBI, it has become effectively
America’s political Police. The FBI
demonstrated with taking down the former Head of the CIA over classified Information
given to his mistress. Almost
no one was untouchable. The FBI is always trying to demonstrate that, “No one
can resist us.” Hillary Clinton very conspicuously resisted the
FBI’s Investigation, so there’s Anger within the FBI because it made the FBI
look weak. Well, we have published quite a number of different sets of emails,
so, about 33,000 of Clinton’s emails while she was Secretary of State. They come from a batch of just over 60,000 emails. In that
60,000 emails, Clinton has kept about half, 30,000, to herself, and we have
published about half.
Then there’s Podesta emails we’ve been publishing. Podesta is
Hillary Clinton’s primary Campaign manager. There’s a thread that runs through
all these emails. There is quite a lot of “pay for play,” as they call it,
giving Access in exchange for Money for many different States, Individuals and Corporations.
Combined with the cover-up of the Hillary Clinton emails while she was
Secretary of State has led to an Environment where the Pressure on the FBI
increases.
3.
Pilger: The Clinton Campaign has said that
Russia is behind all of this. It says that Russia has manipulated the Campaign
and is the source for WikiLeaks and its emails.
4.
Assange: The Clinton Camp
has been able to project that kind of neo-McCarthyist hysteria that Russia is
responsible for everything.
5.
Pilger: Yeah.
6.
Assange: Hillary Clinton
stated multiple times, falsely, that 17 U.S. Intelligence Agencies had assessed
that Russia was the source of our Publications. Okay? That’s false. [omitted] We can say that
the Russian Government is not the source, yes. Wiki has been publishing
for 10 years. In that 10 years, we’ve published 10 million documents, several
thousand Individual Publications, several thousand different sources, and we
have never got it Wrong.
7.
Pilger: All the emails that give Evidence of Access
for Money and how Hillary Clinton herself benefited from this and how she is
benefiting politically are quite extraordinary. I’m thinking of where the Qatari Representative
was given 5 minutes with Bill Clinton for a million-dollar check and many other
examples. Can you?
8.
Assange: Or $12
million from Morocco.
9.
Pilger: $12 million
from Morocco. Yeah.
10.
Assange: For Hillary
Clinton to attend.
11.
Pilger: Yeah. In terms of the Foreign Policy of
the United States, that’s where, for me anyway, where the emails are most
revealing, where they show the direct connexion between Hillary Clinton and the
foundation of Jihadism, of ISIL in the Middle East. Can you talk something
about that? How the emails demonstrate this connexion between those who are
meant to be fighting the jihadist ISIL are actually those who have helped
create it?
12.
Assange: There’s an
early 2014 email from Hillary Clinton, so not so long after she left Secretary
of State, to her Campaign manager John Podesta. That email, it states that
ISIL, ISIS is funded by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, the Governments of Saudi Arabia
and Qatar. Now, this is a. Actually I think this is the most significant email in the
whole collection, and perhaps because Saudi and Qatari Money is spread all over
the place, including into many Media Institutions. All serious analysts know,
even the U.S. Government has mentioned or agreed with that some Saudi figures
have been supporting ISIS, funding ISIS. The
dodge has always been that’s, well, it’s just some rogue Princes, using their
cut of the Oil Money to do whatever they like, but actually the Government
disapproves. That email says that no, it is the Governments of Saudi and Qatar
that have been funding ISIS.
13.
Pilger: The Saudis, the Qataris, the Moroccans,
the Bahrainis, particularly the Saudis and the Qataris are giving all this Money
to the Clinton Foundation while Hillary Clinton is Secretary of State and the
State Department is approving massive Arms Sales, particularly to Saudi Arabia.
14.
Assange: Under Hillary Clinton, and Clinton emails
reveal significant Discussion about it, the largest ever Arms Deal in the World
was made with Saudi Arabia, more than $80 billion. In fact, during her tenure
as Secretary of State, total Arms Exports from United States in terms of the
dollar Value doubled.
15.
Pilger: Doubled. Of course, the Consequence of
that is that this notorious terrorist jihadist Group called ISIL or ISIS is
created largely with Money from the very People who are giving Money to the
Clinton Foundation.
16.
Assange: Yes.
17.
Pilger: That’s extraordinary.
18.
Assange: Look. Hillary
Clinton is just a Person. I actually feel quite sorry for Hillary Clinton as a Person
because
I see someone who is eaten alive by their Ambitions, tormented literally to the point where they become
sick. They faint as a result of going on and going on with their Ambitions.
[Typical statement of a detective who has studied a perpetrator.]
She represents a
whole Network of People and a Network of Relationships also with particular States.
The question is, how does Hillary
Clinton fit in this broader network? She’s a centralising cog, so that you’ve
got a lot of different gears in operation from the big Banks, like Goldman
Sachs and major elements of Wall Street, and Intelligence and People in the
State Department and the Saudis, and so on. She’s is the, if you like, the centraliser that interconnects all
these different cogs. She’s the smooth central representation of all that, and all that is more or less what is in Power
now in the United States. It’s what we call the Establishment or the DC Consensus
and its Influences. In fact, one of the most significant Podesta emails that we
released was about how the Obama Cabinet was formed and half the Obama Cabinet
was basically nominated by a representative from Citibank. Quite amazing.
19.
Pilger: Well, it is. Didn’t Citibank supply a
list?
20.
Assange: Yes.
21.
Pilger: Which turned out to be.
22.
Assange: Which turned out to be.
23.
Pilger: To be mostly Obama Cabinet.
24.
Assange: Yes.
25.
Pilger: Wall Street decides the Cabinet of the
President of the United States.
26.
Assange: If you were following the Obama
Campaign back then closely, [Unlike Joyce Carol Oates & Jim Jarmusch & Seymour Hersh.] you could see it had
become very close to banking Interests. It wasn’t so close to Oil interests but
it was very close to banking Interests.
27.
Pilger: Yeah. Yeah.
28.
Assange: I think you
can’t properly understand Hillary Clinton’s Foreign Policy without
understanding Saudi Arabia. The connexion with Saudi Arabia are so
intimate.
29.
Pilger: Why was she so demonstrably enthusiastic
about the Destruction of Libya? Can you talk a little about just what the
emails have told us - told you - about what happened there? Because Libya is
such a source for so much of the Mayhem now in Syria: the ISIL, Jihadism, and
so on. It was almost Hillary Clinton’s Invasion. What do the emails tell us
about that?
30.
Assange: Libya, more that anyone else’s War, was
Hillary Clinton’s War. Barack Obama initially opposed it. Who was the Person
who was championing it? Hillary Clinton. That’s documented throughout her emails. She put
her favoured agent in effect, Sidney Blumenthal, onto that. There’s more than 1,700
emails out of the 33,000 of Hillary Clinton emails we published just
about Libya. It’s not about that Libya has cheap Oil. She perceived the Removal of Gaddafi and the
Overthrow of the Libyan State something that she would use to run in the
general Election for President. Late
2011, there’s an internal document called the “Libya Tick Tock” that is
produced for Hillary Clinton, and it’s a chronological Description of how
Hillary Clinton was the central figure in the Destruction of the Libyan State. As a result, there was around 40,000 Deaths
within Libya. Jihadists moved in, ISIS moved in. That led to the European
refugee and migrant Crisis, because not only did you have People fleeing Libya,
People then fleeing Syria, destabilisation of other African countries as a
result of Arms flows. The Libyan State itself was no longer able to control
movement of People through it, so Libya faces on to the Mediterranean. It had
been effectively the cork in the bottle of Africa, so all problems, economic
problems, Civil War in Africa. Previously, the People fleeing those Problems
didn’t end up in Europe because Libya policed the Mediterranean. That was said
explicitly at the time, back in early 2011 by Gaddafi: what do these Europeans
think that they are doing, trying to bomb and destroy the Libyan State? There’s
going to be floods of migrants out of Africa and jihadists into Europe, and
that is exactly what happened.
31.
Pilger: You get a lot of complaints from People
saying, “What is WikiLeaks doing? Are they trying to put Trump in the White
House?”
32.
Assange: My Answer is that Trump would not be
permitted to win. Why do I say that? Because he’s had every Establishment
offside. Trump doesn’t have one Establishment, maybe with the exception of the
Evangelicals, if you can call them an Establishment, but Banks, Intelligence, Arms
Companies.
33.
Pilger: They don’t
want him.
34.
Assange: Big foreign Money, etc, is all united
behind Hillary Clinton. The Media as well, so Media owners and even journalists
themselves.
35.
Pilger: The Accusations that WikiLeaks is in
league with the Russians and you hear People saying, “Well, why doesn’t
WikiLeaks investigate and publish emails on Russia?”
36.
Assange: We have
published over 800,000 documents of various kinds that relate to Russia. Most of those are critical; and
a great many books have come out of our Publications about Russia, most of
which are critical. Our documents have gone on to be used in quite a number of Court
cases, refugee cases of People fleeing some kinds of claimed political Persecution
in Russia, which they use our documents to back up.
37.
Pilger: Do you take yourself a View of the U.S. Election?
Do you have a preference for Clinton or Trump?
38.
Assange: Donald Trump, what does he represent
in the American mind and in the European mind? He represents American “white
trash,” deplorable and irredeemable. Basically, the same Thing. It means from an Establishment or educated, cosmopolitan,
urbane perspective, these People are, they’re like the rednecks, and you can’t,
like they’re just, you can never deal with them. Because he so clearly, through
his Words and Actions and the type of People turns up at his rallies,
represents People who are not the middle, not the upper-middle-Class-educated,
there is a Fear of seeming to be associated in any way with that, a social Fear
that lowers the Class status of anyone who can be accused of somehow assisting
in any way Trump, including by criticising Clinton. [Joyce Carol Oates.] If
you look at how the Middle Class gains its economic and social Power, it makes
absolute sense.
39.
Pilger: I’d like to talk about Ecuador, a small Country
that has given you Refuge and given you Asylum in this Embassy in London. Now, Ecuador cut off the Internet from here, where we’re
doing this Interview, in the Embassy for the clearly obvious reason that they
were concerned about appearing to intervene in the U.S. Election Campaign. Can
you talk about why they would take that Action and your own Views on Ecuador’s Support
for you?
40.
Assange: Let’s go back 4 years ago. Ecuador. I
made an Asylum Application to Ecuador in this Embassy because of the U.S. Extradition
case, and the Result was after a month, I was successful in Asylum Application,
and then the Embassy has been surrounded by Police. Quite an expensive Police operation, which
the British Government admits they’re spending more
than 12.6 million pounds. They admitted that over a year ago. Now
there’s undercover Police and there’s Robot Surveillance Cameras of various
kinds so that there has been a quite serious Conflict right here in the heart
of London between Ecuador, a Country of 16 million People, and the United
Kingdom and the Americans who’ve been helping on the side. That was a brave and
principled Thing for Ecuador to do. Now, we have the U.S. Election on foot. The
Ecuadorian Election is in February next year. You have the White House feeling
the political heat as a result of the true Information that we have been
publishing. WikiLeaks does not publish from the Jurisdiction
of Ecuador from this Embassy or in the territory of Ecuador. We publish from
France, we publish from Germany, we publish from the Netherlands and a number
of other countries so that the attempted squeeze on WikiLeaks is through my
refugee Status. This is really intolerable: that you try and get at a
publishing Organisation to try and prevent it publishing true Information that
is of intense Interest to the American People and others about an Election.
41.
Pilger: Tell us what would happen if you walked
out of this Embassy?
42.
Assange: I would be immediately arrested by the
British Police and I would then be extradited either immediately to the United
States or to Sweden. In Sweden, I am not charged, I’ve already been previously
cleared, etc. We’re not certain exactly what would happen there, but then we
know that the Swedish Government has refused to say that they will not
extradite me to United States. They have extradited 100 percent of People that
the U.S. has requested since at least 2000. Over the last 15 years, every
single Person the U.S. has tried to extradite from Sweden has been extradited
and they refuse to provide a Guarantee. So it’s, yeah.
43.
Pilger: People often ask how you cope with the
isolation here.
44.
Assange: Look, one of
the best attributes of human beings is that they are adaptable. One of the
worst attributes of human beings is they are adaptable. They adapt and start to
tolerate Abuses. They adapt to being involved themselves in Abuses. They adapt
to Adversity and continue on. In my situation, frankly, I’m a bit
institutionalised. This is the World. Visually, this is the World.
45.
Pilger: It’s a World without sunlight for one Thing,
isn’t it?
46.
Assange: It’s a World
without sunlight, but I haven’t seen sunlight in so long like I don’t remember
it. Yeah, you adapt. The one real irritant is that my young children,
they also adapt. They adapt to being without their father. That’s a hard, hard
adaption, which they didn’t ask for.
47.
Pilger: Do you worry about them?
48.
Assange: Yeah, I worry about them, I worry about
their mother.
49.
Pilger: Yeah. Some People would say, “Well, why
don’t you end it and simply walk out the door and allow yourself to be
extradited to Sweden?”
50.
Assange: The U.N. has looked into this whole
situation. They spent 18 months in formal adversarial Litigation: me at the
U.N. vs. Sweden and the UK. Who’s Right? The U.N. made
a conclusion I’m being arbitrarily detained, illegally deprived of my Freedom
that what has been occurred has not occurred within the Laws that the United
Kingdom and Sweden must obey. It is an illegal Abuse. United Nations is formally
asking what’s going on here, what’s your legal explanation for this. He says
that you should recognise his Asylum. Sweden formally writing back to United
Nations, says “No, we’re not going to,” so leaving open their Ability to
extradite. I just find it
absolutely amazing that the narrative about this situation is not put out
publicly in the Press because it doesn’t suit the Western Establishment
narrative that, “Yes, the West has political prisoners.” It’s a Reality. It’s
not just me, there’s a bunch of other People as well. The West has
political prisoners. No State accepts to call the People it is imprisoning or
detaining for political reasons “political prisoners.” They don’t call them
political prisoners in China, they don’t call them political prisoners in
Azerbaijan, and they don’t call them political prisoners in the United States,
UK or Sweden. It’s absolutely intolerable to have that kind of Self-perception.
Here we have a case. Talking about the Swedish case, where I have never been
charged with a Crime, where I have already been cleared and found to be
innocent, where the woman herself said that the Police made it up, where the
United Nations formally said the whole Thing is illegal, where the State of
Ecuador also investigated and found that I should be given Asylum. Those are
the facts, but what is the Rhetoric?
51.
Pilger: Different.
52.
Assange: The Rhetoric is pretending, constantly
pretending that I have been charged with a Crime, never mentioning that I have
been already previously cleared, never mentioning that the woman herself says
that the Police made it up, trying to avoid that the U.N. formally found that
the whole Thing is illegal. Never even mentioning that Ecuador made a formal
assessment through its formal Processes and found that yes, I am subject to Persecution
by the United States.
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