Richman, Murray. "Errol Morris's First Person S02E02" (c. 2001) IFC?

  Richman: If the Jury verdit goes your way, that’s Justice. If I lose, Justice has been defeated. Reverse the Situation and I win the case, Justice prevails. It’s like Beauty, it’s in the eyes of the beholder. Truth, Justice, all the Absolutes, all those Things that we perceive as Absolutes, actually in the eyes of the beholder. When I was growing up, I was very comfortable in my Absolutes. I believed in God, I believed in my Country, I believed in my Parents. My Parents are dead, God doesn’t exist and the Country’s full of crap. What’s left?

  Truth, by its very nature, is subjective. If you’re looking up from the ceiling and down to the table, it looks like a square. If you’re looking at that same table from the side, it may be a pedestal. If you’re looking from under it, it looks like a house. Do I mean that I’m not sitting here right now talking to you? Of course, I’m sitting here right now and talking to you. Is that a Truth? It’s a correct statement of the Facts. But is that a Truth? There’s a difference. The only Truth in Life is there is no Truth.

  I had a Trial in which my client stabbed a guy in the back four times, no, seven times. And my defence was he kept backing into the knife. And the Jury bought it. My client got involved in an Altercation in his own Home with a guy he met at a Bar. They brought two girls back to his House. They were drinking heavily, doing a little [Cocaine] and partying. Words got into words, the guy came at my client allegedly with a bottle and my client had a knife. Grabbed him, stabbed him in the back. Seven times. Or he stabbed him and the guy fell back a couple of times. We’re not sure. There’s one Good thing about Murder case. You have one less Witness to worry about. One less Witness to worry about. Is that Right? He ain’t testified.

  Morris: How can the Jury fail to take into consideration seven knife wounds in the back?

  Murray: You know something? If you can paint the guy who’s dead as a real bastard, they’ll let you go with it. The main thing you’ve got to convince that Jury is the guy who’s dead deserved to die. [Alan Dershowitz & Geraldo Rivera. Steve Coll & David Remnick & Seymour Hersh. Me arguing against John F. Kennedy & Lyndon B. Johnson & Robert McNamara & McGeorge Bundy & Arthur Schlesinger. Me arguing against Barack Obama & John Brennan & Susan Rice & Eric Holder & Joyce Carol Oates.]

  Morris: Do People really think like that on a Jury?

  Murray: You think like that. We all think like that. If you stop intellectualising and start looking at the Facts, you’ll see the same way I do. This Life is a sweeter, nicer place because that Person no longer exists.

  Growing up in the Bronx was an introduction to People. I’ve met every ethnic Group in the Bronx. I found I could relate to People. I lived on a block where most of the kids were Jewish or Italian. Across the street, the kids were Black or Puerto Rican. I have two brothers, a younger and an older brother. Grew up on the streets a lot, a lot of Fighting. That was part of our nature. There was nothing that you ever accomplished in Life that you didn’t fight for. And my father was a house painter. He never could vote because he couldn’t pass the Literacy Test. He could speak six Languages but couldn’t read and write English. Yiddish, Roumanian. I still get teary-eyed when I hear the old Yiddish songs. My mother preparing for Friday Night Dinners. Singing the feathers off the chicken and singing songs to herself. It’s a Good feeling. I believe in those days. I believe in God. I believed God watched over us. And I felt secure in the Knowledge of God.

  I started practicing Law in the back of a travel agency. It was like a desk in a corner. Frontier Law. We would keep a bottle of scotch on the table, because if a guy came in with a case, he’d get a shot. It was silly. Bu a lot of People came in and they’d tell you their troubles so you gave them a free shot. And when you got a little bigger, you wanted to hustle the case, you didn’t want for the cse to come to you, you went to the case. And where do Criminals hang out? Pool rooms, bars, clubs. And eventually you moved up the level of clubs until you got the Clientele that you really wanted.

  Billy No Brains was a wanna-be wiseguy. Big hulking kid, 6’ 1’’, 270. Massive. Big, toothy smile. Dumb as shit. Billy’s friend was robbed by a hooker. Billy was going to make it Right. The girl gets in the car, she saw the car was moving, she jumped out and Billy just rolled up onto the next girl. The other girl got in and he took off. They found the body, beaten to Death with a baseball bat. Billy confessed to his friend, «Hey, you see that bitch in the paper? I did it.» The friend eventually told the Police. Murder. She gave Evidence to the Police that he was uncircumcised.

  Morris: This was the girl who had first jumped in the car?

  Murray: Correct, and then got out. Started cross-examining the girl, «How old are you?» «Twenty-seven.» «How long you been on the streets?» «Since I [was] 13.» «And how many tricks do you turn a night?» «Oh, seven to ten.» Seven nights a week, and I did some quick calculations, «That’s like, 60,000 penises you’ve seen. That’s enough to fill Yankee Stadium. Can you tell the difference between a circumcised and an uncircumcised penis? Can you tell the difference when it’s erect?» «Yes, I can.» «And is it your testimony that the penis of the man that you say is my client was uncircumcised?» «Yes.»

  The Medical Examiner comes. I said, «Doctor, is he circumcised or uncircumcised?» «He’s definitely circumcised.» «Is it a circumcision of long-standing?» The Jury started to laugh, the Judge started to laugh. We had to take a break because of the laughter. It worked. The Jury was out maybe ten minutes. Acquitted him completely. Billy thanked me, left the Courtroom. In Florida, he killed somebody by stabbing him 24 times and he was Sentenced to Death. The Sentence was commuted to Ten Years. Ten years later, Billy came out, back on the streets in the Bronx. This time he killed his girlfriend. And he did the Right thing: He killed himself. And that bothered me, that case. Had I lost that case, had I not made a Joke of it, maybe three People would be alive.

  Morris: You believe that he committed that first Murder?

  Murray: Yes. What’s the problem there?

  The Prosecution has the entire force of the Police Department at their beck and call. All the Defence has is the Defense Lawyer, who is Liberty’s last champion. If they screw up, shame on them. I’m not there to correct the State screw-up. I’m not there to help them. They have hundred of Cops, they have Investigators. I got me. And that’s all I got. I took what they gave us and parlayed it, that’s all. I had no difficulty with that. I don’t see what difficulty anybody else is having with that. They made a mistake in their records. I took that and blew it up so he walks out of that Jail. You give me a pinhole and I will work that pinhole. That’s all I want in the case, a pinhole. Is that Right? I’m not dealing Right. A Person doesn’t retain me to do Justice. He retains me to win a case. I said, «Hey, Billy, are you uncircumcised?» He said, «No.» Well, that was my pinhole.

  Morris: Did she know that she had said the Wrong thing?

  Murray: No. I’m sure she got to know it afterwards. [Mnemotechnique] When the Word is in your Mouth, you’re the master. When it’s out of your Mouth, you’re the slave. You’re stuck with what you said. And once she said it, I knew I was home free.

  You win cases, you build them in a mousetrap. People will come to your door wherever you are.

  They caught my client coming out of a restaurant at 11 o’clock at night with two empty gas-cans in his possession and a Fire roaring behind him. They arrested this guy, George Rossi. And I tried the case. Beat the Prosecution heads-on. The place in question was controlled by a guy named Carmine Tramunti, head of the Lucchese Crime Family. Mr. Gribbs.

  Morris: Why Mr. Gribbs?

  Murray: Because when he was a kid, when he got beaten up sometimes, he’d say, «Oh, man, it’s my gribbs, it’s my gribbs.» Meaning his ribs. Verdict came in on a Friday night at 10 o’clock. The whole staff was waiting for me. It was a very exciting hot case. No pun intended. Arson, hot. [William Buckley & Alan Dershowitz. Jane Mayer & Eric Lipton. cf. «Hithcock» by François Truffaut, «You can’t resist it.»]

  When I got back to my office, there was a phone call that I should meet him at the Premier East, one of the clubs.

  There was Carmine and a couple of other guys. «Hey, great win, Murray, great win.» The band that was on the bar, you know, started playing the Theme from the Godfather. It was like the Sea parted when we walked in. Very heady feeling, very heady feeling. That was a big win. The word spread throughout the Community. Here I am with a boss of one of the Crime Families. Shit, I’m hot. I’m the hottest thing around.

  Morris: Do you believe he set the restaurant on Fire?

  Murray: Probably. What’s the problem? I’m not there doing God’s Work. How many times do I have to tell you that? I’m doing Man’s Work. If I were to wait for only innocent clients, you know how thin I’d be? I’d be the skinniest Man on the block. He was leaving his Premises not knowing there was a Fire behind him. What’s Wrong with that?

  Morris: And the gas-cans?

  Murray: He had a problem with his car. He needed the Gas for his car.

  Morris: Why were you so excited about having a Godfather as a client?

  Murray: Business. What could be better than Business. If you’re going to do Criminal Law, what, do you wanna work in the streets all your Life? It’s like, you’re dealing with General Motors now. What a Contract. [Jeff Bezos and the Corporate Welfare]

  I like the Action. I wanna be there. I wanna be where it’s happening.

 

  The Westchester Premier Theatre. People would come and buy Tickets and make a big Fortune for everybody. The Mob was looking for the golden Opportunity. A certain amount of Tickets were skimmed off the top, especially during [] Sinatra-[] Martin-[] Davis Jr. concerts. Eventually Time-Warner bought Westchester Premier Theatre. They indicted the wiseguys and they indicted the People from Time-Warner together. Put them in one case.

  I had a guy named Murad Necessian, Mikey Coco, Mike the Arab. A real tough guy. We had 13, 14 People on Trial and they came in their suits and shirts and ties. These were legitimate guys. Even the gangsters looked legitimate. What could I do differently? This is terrible. I can’t go to Trial this way. I’m gonna get lost in the shuffle. «Mike, I want you to wear a loud flannel shirt and a pair of overalls.» Mike listened. He’d come to Court every day and everybody would look at him and say, «Mike, come on, you’re making us look bad.» Mike says, «Murray says I do this, that’s what I do.» And he would get himself comfortable and go to sleep right in the Courtroom, sleep. The entire Trial he didn’t ask a single question. My client slept quietly nine weeks on Trial. By the sixth week, I really was bored, I didn’t know what to do with myself. My back started hurting from sitting. I ate enough candy to keep my mouth occupied. I read two books. Finally, there was a witness that came up which had nothing at all to do with my client. Judge says, «Mr. Richman, any questions?» I say, «Yes, Your Honour.» Everybody stood up. I [whispered], «Mr. Witness, do you know my client? Mr. Witness, do you know my client?» [Mnemotechnique] And almost on cue, one of the Jurors said, «Counselor, can you speak up?» I said, «I don’t want to wake my client.» They started to laugh. They started to laugh and they didn’t stop laughing. We broke for Court, take a break, came back and my client was still standing there. They looked at him and they started to laugh again. My client was the only one acquitted.

  All Courtrooms are Theatres. [Mnemotechnique] I’ve tried upwards of 97 Murder cases, 400 Jury Trials. I live for the Trial. I live for the Jury. A Trial is a choreography. You start at the beginning with a Concept. You can almost orchestrate your very movements in front of the Jury. Get concerned or show calmness and self-assuredness to convince the Jury that you’re Right. It’s Acting. It’s Good to know the Law, it’s Good to know the Facts, it’s better to know the Judge.

  There’s a Judge on the bench, very tough Judge, she looks like Candice Bergen. My client empied an uzi on a cop. I say, «Judge, I can’t try this case, Judge.» She says, «Why not, Murray?» «I’m falling in Love with you. I can’t continue this Work. I’m just in Love with you. I cannot go forward.» She says, «Are you really?» I stepped back and sang,

  How could you believe me

  when I said I love you

  when you know I’ve been a liar all my life.

  The Jury thought it was hysterical, she thought it was great, my client went to Jail but it was a great story.

  Stories are my thing. My coin of the realm, shall we say.

  I live my Life around Criminals. 42 years in this Business. I’ve met People who kill, who rob and steal, and beat [up] other People and take away Things. I’ve never met a Person who said, «I’m Evil.» I don’t think Evil exists in and of itself. An Evil perpetrator, he doesn’t perceive himself as doing Evil. He’s just fulfilling his own need at that particular Time. It’s relative. I was in London with my wife. We were just walking through Petticoat Lane one day. Somebody snatched her wallet. I turned into the masked avenger. I jumped over a baby carriage, grabbed the guy and knocked him to the floor. I was kicking the shit out of him. They grabbed me off this guy and they said, «Why are you hitting him?» She had her wallet back and I realised that I was having a Good time. Violence is part of Life. That’s why periodically our Nations need War. Go out and kill a few People and it makes everybody Happy. You kill a couple of People, get a couple of our People killed, and then everybody stops and says, «Gee whiz, that feels so Good, Peace is wonderful.»

  Morris: You tell the story about how many clients that you’ve lost over the years.

  Murray: Killed, yeah.

  Morris: About how many?

  Murray: Close to, got to be close to 50. You know, it’s a Bad way of losing Business. Dominick Trunchere, he was blown away with a shotgun blast. Mike Salerno found in the trunk of his car in a Jaguar with a bullet in his head. Jimmy Walker, with a ice pick in his eye. [FuckingA] Patty Irish, shot to Death while sitting in his car. Frankie Russo, his eyes plucked out of his head. Then Philip J. and Philip D. Manfredi, those two bodies turned up under the Bridge. John Pacelli, shotgun blast. Lots and lots of People dying. Obviously Business.

  Not unusual. I think anybody who defended guys like this have lost a lot of clients. It’s part of the Business. They have Wars [among] themselves. I have nothing to do with their Demise.

  Morris: Your clients?

  Murray: They were.

  I had a guy named Charlie Off the Wall. Charlie Off the Wall is dead now so I can talk about him. They also took him out, too. Stabbings, beatings, he would beat anybody up within an inch of his Life. He’d kick them, stomp them. I mean, sheer Violence. Blind Fury. This was a man who needed only a spark to set him off. [Hillary Clinton. Emmanuel Macron & James Mattis.] He did not know anything other than Violence.

  Morris: Did you get him off?

  Murray: Several times.

  It was a big Narcotics case back in 72. We had a Meeting over at my House, preparing for Trial. Joey Lacosa, Joseph Manfredi, Sr., the two Manfredi brothers and a couple of other People. They left my House about 4 o’clock in the afternoon. That night, at two o’clock in the morning, two of the bodies turned up. Philip J. and Philip D. Obviously it must have been contemplated while they were at my House. The Violence just came too close. My wife said, «This doesn’t go. You don’t bring this Home to the House,» and she was Right.

  Morris: No Mobsters in the Home?

  Murray: Place of Business and a place for everything else.

  Life is snuffed. Then I realised the cheapness of Life. The biggest time I realised that was when Trinni was killed. [T.I. AKA Clifford Joseph Harris Jr. after the Death of his bodyguard – Dead and Gone (song)] One day he was among us and then he was gone.

  There was a guy as big as a House, who was in his mid-forties, strong as a bull, could probably pluck off your head like a plum. Bam. All it took was one shotgun blast and he was gone. One shotgun blast. In the basement of the House. He was alledged to have killed People, sold Narcotics, extortioner, gambler, Assaults, Guns, whatever Crime you could think of he was probably alleged to have done it. He was a violent man. I saw him throw a guy right through a jukebox one time. Not into a jukebox, through a jukebox. Goddamn jukebox folded like a cartoon, whap. He picked him up and threw him.

  Morris: And he was a client?

  Murray: Trini, oh, close can be. You couldn’t get a closer client than that. I liked Trinni a lot. Frightening man. Funny as a son of a bitch but frightening.

  Morris: Did you like him in spite of this or because of it?

  Murray: In spite of it because he was always gentle to me. I’m not attracted to Violence. You know when I was a kid, I –

  Morris: -- Wait a second.

  Murray: I’m not attracted to Violence. This is a Business to me. It’s nothing more. I don’t want to be in the presence of People getting hurt. I don’t want to see People hurt other People. I don’t get any Pleasure out of that, none at all. I’m a criminal lawyer. I’ve got to deal with Criminals. If I [were] a gynecologist, you know what I’d be dealing with.

  Morris: So you make the transition from Organised Crime to Gangster Rap.

  Murray: Who needs to be consistent? I don’t do rap exclusively, nor do I do wiseguys exclusively. I’m still doing both simultaneously. I have no problem. I haven’t given up my old clientele.

  Shyne was charged with Attempted Murder, Intentional Assault and Possession of a Weapon, etc. We were looking to negotiate a Plea in that case because, one, he came rushing out of the club with a Gun in his belt. There [were] nine Eyewitnesses who had seen Shyne discharge the Firearm. You’ve got a Bad case. Three People were injured, one shot in the face. A serious Situation. We were looking [at] Seven Years.

  «Ladies and Gentlemen, you gotta picture. We have a club packed with People, not just packed but packed like a subway car. And inadvertently he backs into a man. The man turns around and says, [Mnemotechnique, Émy Guerrini & Kate Aronoff] «Hey motherfucker, who do you think you are? Who do you think you are? I’m going to fucking kill you. I’m going to see you in fucking Brooklyn.» And then, an argument ensued. And the guy next to him takes the Money and throws it in his face, just like that. Shyne seeing that and Shyne having been shot at about a month before, had a Gun on him. «Did he have a Right to Have the Gun? No, ladies and gentlemen, he did not have the Right to Have a Gun.»

  [Mnemotechnique] And this is where the movement came in. You show the movement as it happens. As you raise your voice and lower it, as you describe it, as you speed it up, you slow it down, move. It’s a dance. We beat the top two Counts. Is he getting Jail-time? Yes. Shyne shot People, is alledged to have shot People. Shyne’s Unhappy but he knew that he would be convicted. We all knew. It was a question of how much time. That’s the Facts. 21-year-old boy. And if he wasn’t so famous, nobody would have given a crap about him.

  On 29 August 1977, I was indicted by the Federal Court. It was alledged that I had purchased a Building, sold it to this Narcotics programme at a Profit.

  Morris: A Felony?

  Murray: Felony? Five-year Felony. Serious business.

  They put an informer on the stand who never met me and said, «On 26 November at 8, I was at a certain restaurant and he was there with me.» It was in his diary. And sure enough, he produced a diary. And there was my name written boldly there. Trouble is 26 November was the greatest day of my Life. I was waiting for the return of the Jury in the very same Federal Court. They were there ‘till 10 o’clock at night. In the same Courthouse in another case with a different Judge. But I was smart enough not to tell the Government before we went to Trial because they would have had this man change the date. Been there, been down that block. The second date in question, 13 Decembre, I was actually having lunch with one of the prosecutors on my case. Only two days tied me to these Events and both days were bogus Dates. Obviously, the Jury acquitted me.

  You wanna be scared? Listen to those Words, «United States of America vs. Errol Morris, Murray Richman or what have you», those are scary goddamn Words. My wife had a breakdown at that time. My Life was in shambles. And when I have a nightmare, I dream of that Jury coming back. It scares the shit out of ya. Prosecutor, three of them sitting at the table, saying to me that you are a criminal, and that Jury looking at you, watching every move you’re making. Are you on Trial? Not only was I on Trial then, but on every Trial I’ve ever had since. So I know what it means to feel that way. I know the Fear that goes through ya. The Feeling of Diarrhea that comes over you as you lay in bed at night, sweating, and ask, «What’s going be with my Family? Who’s gonna take care of my Kids?» [Amy Goodman from to, Noam Chomsky from to, Edward Snowden from to] Am I on Trial? You’re absolutely goddamn Right I’m on Trial. Every single time I try a case. And if I [weren’t], I’d be one shit-ass lawyer.

  Truth, Justice and the American Way [don’t] really exist. I would have been happier, believing as I once did that Good would inevitably triumph, that Truth and Justice will prevail.

  Morris: It seems to me though that you do believe in Truth. You have Faith in Juries opposed to the People.

  Murray: I do believe. I’m just not sure what it is that I believe. It is not as clear-cut as it once was. I used to be able to draw a line and say, «That’s Good and that’s Bad.» I can’t draw that line anymore. I remember the last day School let out, as I became a lawyer, counting down the minutes, I have another hour of class, 59 minutes of class. And here it is, 42 years later.

  And yet it was like yesterday. I look at myself in the mirror and I say to myself, «Who’s that old guy over there? I’m still the same inside. I just can’t believe that I’m closer to 66 than I am to 16.»

  My father told me years ago, he said, «Moisha, Life is a holem – Holem means dream - That which was can never be again and it’s just as much of Reality as the dream you dreamt. [It’s] of no Consequence.» I didn’t know what the heck he meant. It’s amazing. When I was young, I thought my father was Stupid. As I got older, I was amazed at how Wise he became and it wasn’t he getting wiser, it was me getting Wise to my father. He didn’t speak English and I was embarassed by his accent as a kid. [Accurate] But he really was a wise guy. [Accurate] Withdrawn, make that a wise man. A wiseguy’s an entirely different Thing.