1.
ROBERT FREEDMAN: Well, it’s clear that
this was a horrendous act. And terrorism, the deliberate killing of civilians,
whether it’s by ISIS terrorists or by Palestinians knifing civilians in
Jerusalem, has to be deplored and has to be dealt with. The irony of this,
coming to the next part of our discussion, is that I’m sure Mr. Trump will
seize upon this to demonstrate tougher action is needed against Muslim
immigrants to the United States and against those who want to be refugees
coming to the United States. And that, too, is deplorable.
2.
ROBERT FREEDMAN: Sure. There were six
issues, which cut across all the candidates: the deal with Iran; the question
of moving the American Embassy to Jerusalem; the issue of Palestinian
terrorism; the issue of supporting Israeli security; relations with Israel, and
especially Netanyahu; and the U.N. Security Council resolution, if it takes
place, on an Arab-Israeli peace agreement. Now, if you look at the main
candidates—and here I’m looking not only at the speeches, but also of the
two-hour discussion on CNN following the speeches—I think you find the
following.
On the Iran deal, Clinton, keep the deal,
but mistrust and verify it; Trump, abolish it, negotiate a new deal; Kasich,
suspend it because of the missile tests; Cruz, flat-out abolish it; and
Sanders, keep it.
On moving the embassy to Jerusalem,
Clinton said no, because of the negative effect on the Middle East; Trump,
Kasich and Cruz—well, Trump said yes, Kasich said he would study it, Cruz said
yes; and Sanders said no.
On Palestinian terrorism and incitement,
that it’s so-called the culture of martyrdom and death taught in Palestinian
schools, everybody was critical. Clinton, Trump, Kasich and Cruz denounced it.
Sanders said, “But you have to look at,” as we heard on the clip, “the very
negative situation in Gaza economically.”
On the question of supporting Israeli
security, again, Clinton, Trump, Kasich and Cruz all supported it strongly.
Sanders was a bit weaker on this.
On relations with Netanyahu and Israel,
Clinton, again, Trump, Kasich and Cruz all moved to say they want to improve
it. But Sanders, in his CNN talk, said, “Well, you have to look at Netanyahu,
who’s a lot of the cause of the problems.”
On settlements, Clinton criticized it.
Sanders strongly criticized it. Trump, Kasich and Cruz didn’t discuss it at
all.
And finally, on the U.N. Security Council
resolution on the Arab-Israeli conflict, assuming the French initiative comes
through, Clinton said she would veto, Trump said he would veto, Kasich said he
would veto, Cruz said he would veto, and Sanders didn’t discuss it but said he
would work very hard for a Palestinian-Israeli peace agreement.
So, I mean, those are six or seven issues
where they really differed. What I took away from this,
interestingly enough, was that Kasich and Clinton were actually fairly close on
a lot of the issues. And I wouldn’t say so much that Clinton was the right—to
the right of Trump; I would say, rather, that Trump was to the left of Cruz,
and Kasich was to the left of both of the others. Now, how this works out in
reality following the election, of course—it’s one thing to make promises
before the election, it’s another thing to make promises and carry them out
afterwards.
And very quickly, in response to Yousef,
killing civilians deliberately for political reasons is terrorism whether it
takes place in Jerusalem or whether it takes place in Brussels. Claiming that
this is a reaction, it’s OK for a young lady or a young man to go and kill
Israeli civilians because this is, you know, protesting the occupation, is
simply wrong. And this is why the main candidates all denounced it—and
denounced it loudly.
3.
ROBERT FREEDMAN: Well, I agree, actually,
with Yousef on one issue, and that is the problem caused by the settlements. I
happen to be—this program is called Democracy Now! I happen to be a
member of an organization called Peace Now, which has been deploring the
settlements from the beginning, and I deplore them, as well, whether it’s
Ariel, which is sort of like a bone in the mouth of any future Palestinian
state, which—since I’m a supporter of the two-state solution, strongly, as, by
the way, is Mrs. Clinton, which she also said in her presentation, I share the
problem of the settlement expansion.
Yet Yousef tends to
overlook a few issues of history. Palestinians were offered a state by the U.N.
in 1947, rejected it. Olmert in 1968 came up with a plan, really a very good
two-state solution, including sharing Jerusalem; Palestinians rejected it—in
2008. And then, this most recent effort by the United States during a Kerry—a
nine-month effort, the Palestinians and Mr. Abbas didn’t even respond to the
American plan. So, one can talk about occupation and occupation, but unless and
until the Palestinians are willing to come out with an agreement on a two-state
solution, number one—
4.
ROBERT FREEDMAN: OK, there are two
related issues here. First of all, I’ve got to respond to Yousef, because his
view of history obviously does not coincide with mine. But in one area where he
seems to be unaware of what’s going on, there are regular protests in Israel
against the settlements, led by Shalom Achshav, or Peace Now. There is
attempts—lobbying of the Knesset. Unfortunately for the future of a two-state
solution, the Peace Now people are not in the majority in the Israeli
Parliament, but that’s a democracy. They continue to advocate. They continue to
oppose the settlements. That’s number one.
Number two, this $3
billion-plus a year in military aid—perhaps Yousef hasn’t been in Israel or in
Gaza when rockets continue to fly from Gaza into Israel, killing Israeli
civilians. Now, Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, 2006, under Ariel Sharon.
And what has moved the Israeli body politic to the right is the fact that
instead of peace, Israel got rocketed in return for pulling out of Gaza. Now,
that should be noted. And hence, the United States, in supplying aid for Iron
Dome, now David’s Sling, Arrow 3, which would be used against the threat from
Iran, which has called for the destruction of Israel, most recently inscribed
in Farsi on the rockets—and this was pointed out by a number of the speakers at
AIPAC yesterday. But this is the first thing. Second thing, BDS—
5.
ROBERT FREEDMAN: Let me answer—let me
answer the BDS—
6.
ROBERT FREEDMAN: —because BDS is—it’s
very, very important. The people who support BDS seem to be ignorant of other
problems in the Middle East. More than a quarter-million people have died in
Syria. Forty thousand-plus are dying at—in Kurds in Turkey. But not only that,
countries like China support Syria, as well as attacking their own Muslim
populations. Russia has slaughtered people in Chechnya. But nobody is talking
about stopping educational ties with China, Chinese universities, or with
Russian universities or with Turkish universities. The concentration seems to
be, “Well, Israel is bad; we’ve got to stop educational ties with Israel.” Now,
folks, there’s a lot of crying about Islamophobia that one hears every day. But
singling out Israel, when there are so many worse things happening in the
world, I think, is in fact anti-Semitism, and there’s no other way of looking
at it.
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